Time to Think the Unthinkable

[Noel Street]

He's not getting blamed for anything, it's just that the point is being made he is not quite as good as he used to be.

 

He is not beyond criticism you know? And no one should be in the first eleven regardless of form. Aren't we even allowed to discuss it without these histrionics?

 

 

no you're quite right it was more of a reply to the post that said he'd been poor for the last 3 or 4 games

[smithdown]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but the point stands. He did make poor decisions on the ball. Carra should never, ever be allowed to stride forward and shoot. Ever.

 

Ha!

 

I wasn't as it goes. There was a baffling one towards the end that put us right under pressure, was only a throw in but, f*ck me, his head was right up his own ar/se.

 

He'll be alright for Saturday though. Needs to calm down and just defend. Any change would do more harm than good now but the sooner Gerrard is back the better if only to take back the captaincy.

Edited April 21, 2009 by smithdown

[growler]

not sure he is past it yet, but certain he is not captain material. With so many leaders in the team, a sentimental one that isn't required. Gerrard is by far the captain for the squad, but as a vice captain I would suggest a change; Masch, Reina would be my first two choices, but do think he is not a leader on the pitch. (don't know about off it)

[cymrococh]

They had 8 chances total, 3 of them through simple defensive lapses. They were trash.

Exactly, 3 goals from individual errors and another due to the fact we had committed everyone to making up for those errors.

[Dule]

This game was not one to point out Carra's flaws for the season. The whole backline was Gash, including Masch.

 

I do however feel that there needs to be games next year, maybe from the start of the season, where Carra is not included in the starting lineup.

 

Anyone who tells me that Carra has had a good season is totally off his tree. He has been no where near as good as previous seasons. Maybe it would be just the thing that he needs.

[mercury]

The decline started last season. He's still good, but not great, certainly not over a full season. People DO age. It's inevitable, much as we love him. Time for careful transition into a Sami role say over two or three years.

[Stevie H]

not needed this thread. carragher was among the least of our problems last night just as he's been among the least of our problems all season.

 

he'll go when he goes just like sami has, but at present he's hardly a rick a match is he?

[jimmylibel]

not needed this thread. carragher was among the least of our problems last night just as he's been among the least of our problems all season.

 

he'll go when he goes just like sami has, but at present he's hardly a rick a match is he?

 

I don't know Stevie. As this team has become more and more uptempo I think Carra is looking very out of his depth. I'd go so far as saying he's been consistantly one of our lesser performers since we started our run of wins.

 

Don't think he was all that earlier in the season either.

 

I think if either of the other centre halves had played as he has consistantly they'd be on the bench.

 

I also think if the defence is in pieces (which to be fair I don't think was the case last night, it was more individual errors) then questions should be asked of Rafa and whoever is responsible for organising that defence on the pitch... ie Carra.

 

Effectively our strength of previous seasons was our defence and it's now become a bit of a weakness.

[Coyler]

Effectively our strength of previous seasons was our defence and it's now become a bit of a weakness.

This is the most headwrecking thing. See also, historically: away form, not scoring enough, performances without Gerrard, lack of a magic striker, etc. A litany of things that if we could only sort out we'd win the league. We hammer one of them down, invariably rectifying them in quite spectacular fashion, and another just pops out with equal force.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Coyler

[Chili Palmer]

This is the most headwrecking thing. See also, historically: away form, not scoring enough, performances without Gerrard, lack of a magic striker, etc. A litany of things that if we could only sort out we'd win the league. We hammer one of them down, invariably rectifying them in quite spectacular fashion, and another just pops out with equal force.

 

 

Its only two games to be fair, and games where we went a bit gung ho! The defense will be back to its stingy best soon. I'm not worried at all about it long term.

[Jarg Armani]

By our own standards, we haven't defended particularly well all season. We've only reached the heights of a few years back 4 or 5 times. Why?

[Falconhoof]

By our own standards, we haven't defended particularly well all season. We've only reached the heights of a few years back 4 or 5 times. Why?

 

the slow decline of Carra and Sami, both as a partnership, and as individuals. We've been through a hell of a lot of fullbacks in that time too and its never settled.

[fred milne]

Some of it is Carra being on his way down as a player. He's still got a lot to offer but he's not at the level he was 3 years ago.

[Jarg Armani]

who needs replacing and with what?

 

i feel we need a hyypia type player more than anything. agger leaving would be a bad thing, skrtel leaving less so.

 

they're all good players but the fact that skrtel and agger have never played as a 2 speaks volumes.

 

we need someone dominant who can play with agger, skrtel or carragher.

 

aerial dominance at both ends of the field is worth at least 6 points a season in my opinion.

[fred milne]

who needs replacing and with what?

 

i feel we need a hyypia type player more than anything. agger leaving would be a bad thing, skrtel leaving less so.

 

they're all good players but the fact that skrtel and agger have never played as a 2 speaks volumes.

 

we need someone dominant who can play with agger, skrtel or carragher.

 

aerial dominance at both ends of the field is worth at least 6 points a season in my opinion.

Personally, I don't think we need to move any players in or out. The four we have are good enough - we just need to use them better. In particular, Carra shouldn't be playing every game.

[Bailo]

I'm surprised Carra has played as many as he has. Maybe as he's around on international weeks Rafa feels he can keep him in the side?

[Jarg Armani]

Personally, I don't think we need to move any players in or out. The four we have are good enough - we just need to use them better. In particular, Carra shouldn't be playing every game.

 

Why haven't Skrtel and Agger ever played as a 2 then? My Guess is vocal organisation.

 

Skrtel would be sound if he talked and was good at heading the ball into the net from corners. As it is, he's the one with room for improvement.

 

Carragher is out of form and a bit knackered. Possibly something more, but too early to say.

[yellow jumper]

with our midfield gone slightly awol last night (not giving usual levels of protection at least) i thought the back four should have looked to be a bit more agressive and try and win the ball higher up the pitch rather than just backing off.

 

regardless of the obvious mistakes on arsenal's 2nd and 3rd goals they got to the edge of our area far too easily on both occasions. the equaliser came from a long punt down field by fabianski, arshavin unchallenged for the first header (no one anywhere near him in fact), then carragher giving a slightly indeterminate header on the edge of his own area (why were we that deep?), before we even look at arbeloa's abberation.

 

skrtel at least looks to win every ball whether on the ground or in the air. can be a bit rash, but i think he would have done more to win the first ball or failing that to get more of a block on the shot for arshavin's second than either of our central defenders last night.

Edited April 22, 2009 by george lees

[Knox_Harrington]

I'd shift Skrtel on.

 

There. I've said it.

 

He's a good player but doesn't look like he has an extra gear. He isn't as aerially dominant as he should be, he isn't an organiser, he isn't quick, he isn't good with the ball (least important). He's a good defender but not a great one.

[Sion]

I'd shift Skrtel on.

 

There. I've said it.

 

He's a good player but doesn't look like he has an extra gear. He isn't as aerially dominant as he should be, he isn't an organiser, he isn't quick, he isn't good with the ball (least important). He's a good defender but not a great one.

 

Madness, if anyone should be shifted on it's the over-rated and seemingly uninterested Agger.

[CarraLegend]

Dropping Skrtel was supposed to solve everything if you believe some on here, well it didnt look that way last night!

[Knox_Harrington]

Madness, if anyone should be shifted on it's the over-rated and seemingly uninterested Agger.

I don't see why it's madness. I don't think any of our centre halves are untouchable but only three of the four have hit the heights required consistently in red. One never will again. One might do but he's getting old and the other is Agger. There remain question marks about him as well, mind.

[Knox_Harrington]

Dropping Skrtel was supposed to solve everything if you believe some on here, well it didnt look that way last night!

Take George's insight about winning the ball earlier but I thought Agger was the best of our back four last night.

[David Hodgson]

I'd shift Skrtel on.

 

There. I've said it.

 

He's a good player but doesn't look like he has an extra gear. He isn't as aerially dominant as he should be, he isn't an organiser, he isn't quick, he isn't good with the ball (least important). He's a good defender but not a great one.

 

Agreed. Kinda. If you mean 'shifted on' to the bench ?

 

No need to sell him. He's still very good, but Agger would be my first pick, and then Carra next.

[David Hodgson]

Take George's insight about winning the ball earlier but I thought Agger was the best of our back four last night.

 

He was, and that was no mean feat, given the status of the game, and how long he's been out.