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Racist kids cant understand woman in veil


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Personally for me thats the bibles biggest strength ,it gives it some elasticity which means you can question it but still retain belief and makes for a healthier democratic society (in my opinion) because nothing is off limits to question .

 

Only if you believe utter rubbish:

 

e.g. 'God didn't really mean it'

 

I would think human nature makes sharia law impossible ,in practise it seems barbaric (afghanistan) and ends up being some idealised utopia of an islamic society that can never be achieved properly.

 

"but the principles are untouchable" nothing is untouchable as far as I am concerned .

 

You call that faith?

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Muslims, atheists, Christians, all of us have one common enemy.

 

For the next two hours at least let's unite against them.

 

Death to the Manchester infidels!

 

:)

 

 

Forget Iraq

 

Nuke Manchester!!!

 

They have a devil on their shirt! Do you see? Eh? See? The devil?

Edited by smithdown
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I was of the opinion that there were à la carte Muslims who chose not to believe this hateful, barbaric stuff and that this homosexual death penalty was a rare and weird interpretation of the Sharia that only a handful still believed in but the advice on here is that it's all part of the non-negotiable package.

 

To be honest I'm in severe danger of becoming very anti-Muslim if that is the case. As anti-Muslim as I am anti-Bible-basher.

 

The implication that no good Muslim can choose to disregard these brutal laws raises a vaguely on-topic but very dodgy question for me personally: if the wearing of hijab provides me with the information that the wearer necessarily believes in these animal punishments and truly believes my brother to be a killable waste of a soul, am I not justified in automatically seeing that person differently and ensuring my daughter goes nowhere near her? And if so, can we organize a similar dress-code for Free Presbyterians / Nazi Catholics / etc., etc.?

But you don't denounce them in principle still.

are you planning on booing Momo from now on?

 

what will you do if your daughter wants to marry a muslim man and convert to islam?

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Just make them stay in the house with you and your perfect vision of humanity. If you don't think she has the intellect to think for herself and she'll be in great moral and physical danger from encountering muslim women, thats probably the best course of action for you to take. You could call your house Duntalaban.

1. I rather oppressively think that my 3-year-old daughter does not yet have the intellect to think for herself.

2. I think a definite moral danger is posed to her by anybody who would fervently believe as an unquestionable truth that her father and her uncle could in certain circumstances be stoned to death or otherwise killed because of who they are and what they've done. I don't know where you got "physical danger" from.

 

The plea is regularly made on here for people to go out and educate themselves about Islam before decrying it. You yourself have told me, amongst other enlightening information for which I am grateful, that all Muslims must support this aspect of Sharia Law. No other Muslim on here seems to have disagreed.

 

I don't like hating anybody as a rule, but I have no reservations about looking down with scorn and disgust and -- let's be honest -- fear on people who see nothing wrong in laws that say that homosexuals can be punished by death. I don't care whether they're Muslim or Jewish or Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm pretty non-sectarian about it.

 

It's also not something you can shrug off and say, "well, to each their own".

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1. I rather oppressively think that my 3-year-old daughter does not yet have the intellect to think for herself.

2. I think a definite moral danger is posed to her by anybody who would fervently believe as an unquestionable truth that her father and her uncle could in certain circumstances be stoned to death or otherwise killed because of who they are and what they've done. I don't know where you got "physical danger" from.

 

The plea is regularly made on here for people to go out and educate themselves about Islam before decrying it. You yourself have told me, amongst other enlightening information for which I am grateful, that all Muslims must support this aspect of Sharia Law. No other Muslim on here seems to have disagreed.

 

I don't like hating anybody as a rule, but I have no reservations about looking down with scorn and disgust and -- let's be honest -- fear on people who see nothing wrong in laws that say that homosexuals can be punished by death. I don't care whether they're Muslim or Jewish or Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm pretty non-sectarian about it.

 

It's also not something you can shrug off and say, "well, to each their own".

 

Perfectly put. No overreaction there either.

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The Qu'ran doesn't mention 'freedom', it describes 'liberation' instead. A subtle but huuuuuugely important difference.

 

There, thats food for thought innit?

i don't know what point you're trying to make.

 

i believe simply that everyone should be able to live as they choose - without interfering in, or encroaching upon, others' human or civil rights.

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are you planning on booing Momo from now on?

 

what will you do if your daughter wants to marry a muslim man and convert to islam?

I don't go to matches in England and I don't boo at the ones I do go to :thumbs: but if this new revelation about ALL Muslims supporting that Sharia Law is true then it's f*cking serious.

 

It's a tad worse than the current homophobic environment in soccer where distaste and fear and misunderstanding is prevalent.

 

If someone in the squad came out and said they think gays should be stoned to death then of course I'm going to re-evaluate my fan's relationship with them.

 

If my daughter comes to me and tells me that she suddenly believes in that part of Sharia Law then I'm going to have a serious, serious problem with that as well as with my own parenting and that of her mother.

Edited by Coyler
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From veils to honour killings to burying gays up to their necks in sand, if it weren't for them dastardly muslims there would be a secular scientific paradise on earth, as shown by the perfectly peaceful and sublime history of the beautifully evolved european societies.

 

How many pages are we on now? Lot of vitriol has been released by jack straw hasn't it? Now we are getting posts that say 'I wouldn't let my daughter near them'. I wonder if the same would have been said before the 'do they really contribute to our society' quotes. Probably just coincidence, or maybe the genie really is out of the bottle, so to speak.

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do those countries uphold sharia law?

 

aside from the legal position, how are homosexuals/known adulterers viewed by society in general? is there much social exclusion?

 

all those countries are muslims countries, and usually most rules would have to passed through a fatwa by the eading islamic scholar in the country, and since I don't think any of them implement the death penalty, it does indicate that there is a certain amount of flexibility with regards to Sharia law, for example the mortgage, Loaning or borrowing with intersts is forbidden in islam, but some scholars (both shi'ites and sunnis) have allowed people to take out mortgages

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From veils to honour killings to burying gays up to their necks in sand, if it weren't for them dastardly muslims there would be a secular scientific paradise on earth, as shown by the perfectly peaceful and sublime history of the beautifully evolved european societies.

 

Nah, I blame the f*cking christians for that (i.e. the lack of it).

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all those countries are muslims countries, and usually most rules would have to passed through a fatwa by the eading islamic scholar in the country, and since I don't think any of them implement the death penalty, it does indicate that there is a certain amount of flexibility with regards to Sharia law, for example the mortgage, Loaning or borrowing with intersts is forbidden in islam, but some scholars (both shi'ites and sunnis) have allowed people to take out mortgages

 

The heads of the Catholic chruch have been known to spout some rubbish in the past but the difference is that Catholics don't necessarily uphold what they have said but have instead exercised some personal choice. What concerns me is that your scholars could be radicals and yet you would rather appease them than make your own mind up on an issue.

Edited by TanMan
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How many pages are we on now? Lot of vitriol has been released by jack straw hasn't it? Now we are getting posts that say 'I wouldn't let my daughter near them'.

If it is the case, as you say it is, that all Muslims have no choice but to fully support Sharia Law and all it entails. I don't let my daughter near any kind of hate if I can help it. Fathers do aim for a perfect society for their daughters insofar as they control it.

 

I honestly thought before this that the vast majority of Muslims would have disagreed with the principles enshrined in those punishments. I honestly hope that it is the case and that the Muslims on here happen to be hardcore.

 

all those countries are muslims countries, and usually most rules would have to passed through a fatwa by the eading islamic scholar in the country, and since I don't think any of them implement the death penalty, it does indicate that there is a certain amount of flexibility with regards to Sharia law ...

Glad to hear it. So why, then, do the posters on here not exercise that flexibility and instead pretend they are bound not to find fault with any of it?

 

The main thing that worried me was the reaction of the Muslim posters on here. You told me not to take it as representative, whereas smithdown says all Muslims have to support Sharia.

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If it is the case, as you say it is, that all Muslims have no choice but to fully support Sharia Law and all it entails. I don't let my daughter near any kind of hate if I can help it. Fathers do aim for a perfect society for their daughters insofar as they control it.

 

 

So who else do you categorise as a 'hate group'?

 

Take into account, of course, the large number of muslims who are being killed, tortured and imprisoned in the world, I don't know the exact figures but I guess more muslims have died in the last decade at the hands of secular governments and their armies than gays being killed under Shariah Law.

 

Interesting to put some perspective on the figures in the real rather than hypothetical world, don't you think?

 

Do you think you would freak out if a soldier's daughter came round to play with your girl? What if her dad was a new labour party supporter or believed in the war on terror? Imagine all that indoctrinated hate she would have to listen to.

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he doesnt because he knows the law and can keep his pants zipped till hes in the privacy of his own house etc

oh, so it's only homosexuals who have sex in public that need to be killed?

 

 

ah well, you should have said....

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1. I rather oppressively think that my 3-year-old daughter does not yet have the intellect to think for herself.

2. I think a definite moral danger is posed to her by anybody who would fervently believe as an unquestionable truth that her father and her uncle could in certain circumstances be stoned to death or otherwise killed because of who they are and what they've done. I don't know where you got "physical danger" from.

 

The plea is regularly made on here for people to go out and educate themselves about Islam before decrying it. You yourself have told me, amongst other enlightening information for which I am grateful, that all Muslims must support this aspect of Sharia Law. No other Muslim on here seems to have disagreed.

 

I don't like hating anybody as a rule, but I have no reservations about looking down with scorn and disgust and -- let's be honest -- fear on people who see nothing wrong in laws that say that homosexuals can be punished by death. I don't care whether they're Muslim or Jewish or Jehovah's Witnesses, I'm pretty non-sectarian about it.

 

It's also not something you can shrug off and say, "well, to each their own".

 

absolutely spot on

 

what is the punishment for homosexuality/ adultery in places like egypt, UAE, syria, kuwait, morroco?

 

Of the Islamic states that ban lesbian and gay sex: Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen enforce the death penalty. Pakistan specifies two years to life imprisonment, plus flogging. In Malaysia the maximum sentence is 20 years and in the United Arab Emirates it's 14. Bangladesh and Libya are considered fairly moderate in Islamic fundamentalist terms, with punishments of seven and five years' jail respectively.

 

In Iran, since 1980, when the fundamentalists came to power under the leadership of Ayatollah Khomeini, over 4,000 lesbians and gay men have been executed, according to estimates by the exiled Iranian homosexual rights group, Homan.

 

In the early 1980's, for example, 70 people were executed after they attempted to set up a lesbian and gay organisation. Nearly 100 homosexuals were sentenced to death in 1992 following a raid on a private party.

 

It is notoriously difficult to be certain about the exact number of lesbians and gays killed because some executions take place in secret, and the relatives of those killed often try to cover up the true reason, due to the strong social stigma associated with homosexuality. Another factor preventing an accurate estimate is the regime's resort to false allegations of homosexuality against political opponents, in a bid to discredit them. Trumped up charges of homosexuality were levelled against a Sunni Muslim leader, Dr. Ali Mozaffarian, who was executed in Shiraz in 1992.

 

The methods of killing lesbians and gays in Iran include: beheading with a sword, stoning to death, burning alive, and throwing from a mountain top or high building.

 

 

 

all this is done in the name of God.

 

you could f***ing laugh if it wasn't so serious

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Here is the view on Homosexuality of Ayatollah Musavi-Ardebili, speaking to students at Tehran University in 1990:

 

"They should seize him (or her), they should keep him standing, they should split him in two with a sword, they should either cut off his neck or they should split him from the head. ... After he is dead, they bring logs, make a fire and place the corpse on the logs, set fire to it and burn it. Or it should be taken to the top of a mountain and thrown down. Then the parts of the corpse should be gathered together and burnt. Or they should dig a hole, make a fire in the hole and throw him alive into the fire.

 

"We do not have such punishments for other offences", boasted the Ayatollah. "There cannot be the slightest degree of mercy or compassion. ... Praise be to God."

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Ran this past my mate, and this is his take on the subject..

 

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your question. I will attempt to answer each point with my limited knowledge of this subject?

The two places I have found that mention the veil are below in translation:

Surah An-Nur 24:31 (chapter 24, verse 31)

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.

Surah Al-Ahzab33:59 (chapter 33, verse 59)

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e.screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.

These verses may have been taken out of context especially in Saudi Arabia - since that's where we go for pilgrimage etc and they are more strict there..

I personally feel that the full face cover is a little extreme and looks totally out of place when worn in a Western Country. As you know my wife wears a headscarf but doesn't feel it need to cover up fully - it seems to be a cultural thing to us.

Here's something I just read in an e-mail on this subject - a viewpoint I agree with........

Muslims follow four main Scholars (Shafi, Hanafi, Malki and Hanbali) who interpreted the sayings of the prophet (Hadith) -: All the body of a woman is "Owrah" and should be covered except her face and hands (in presence of foreign males). A Woman's face becomes "Owrah" if "fitnah" seduction & tribulation exist according Shafi's and part of Hanbali's ways and not Hanafi's and Malki's.

Note: We follow Imam Hanafi, which is why we feel a full cover is not necessary.

Veils could only be worn if "Fitnah" tribulation & seduction exist as a protective measure and not as a religious requirements ( Saad-Al-Zaraei : closing gaps that used by the devil "shaitaan" to get to Muslims).

According to current scholars: Qerdawi, Kabeesi, Ali Jumah, Tantawi and others:

In non Muslim countries (especially in the West), "Fitnah" will exist if the veil is worn and will bring harms to Muslim women. It will be contrary to local culture "Urf" and since it is not Islamic requirement: Wearing the veil in the West will bring tribulation and harm by itself and not prevent it: It could become "Haram" to wear the veil due to the harm it brings to Muslim women. By Dr. Issam Ghannam,

Finally check the two articles below countering the latest provocation by an MP who has other ulterior motives. It is fast becoming evident that freedom of speech, to dress etc. is a one way street?..

http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=1194 By Mobeen Azhar

http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=1195 By George Galloway

 

Regards,

Khalid

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Here is the view on Homosexuality of Ayatollah Musavi-Ardebili, speaking to students at Tehran University in 1990:

 

"They should seize him (or her), they should keep him standing, they should split him in two with a sword, they should either cut off his neck or they should split him from the head. ... After he is dead, they bring logs, make a fire and place the corpse on the logs, set fire to it and burn it. Or it should be taken to the top of a mountain and thrown down. Then the parts of the corpse should be gathered together and burnt. Or they should dig a hole, make a fire in the hole and throw him alive into the fire.

 

"We do not have such punishments for other offences", boasted the Ayatollah. "There cannot be the slightest degree of mercy or compassion. ... Praise be to God."

 

Doesn't 'balance' require that Bernard Manning's views are also posted?

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