EU Referendum

[pipnasty]

No Cobs. It is THE point. It’s genuinely far more important.

 

I'd go as far as to suggest that this privilege is what many FBPE'ers are striving to maintain.

[jimbolala]

you have SDLP who’s in alliance with Labour, isn’t it?

 

Or is that information obsolete?

thats meant to be the case, but in reality, they are just a party of middle class catholics whose views on certain issues reflect this. Labour need to stand as them selves with the same manifesto as the rest of the country.

[cymrococh]

should be f***ing sacked for that

 

 

EDITED because the f***ing copy/paste was a headcase

Ireland's history of being starved to death by their colonial overlords.

[John am Rhein]

thats meant to be the case, but in reality, they are just a party of middle class catholics whose views on certain issues reflect this. Labour need to stand as them selves with the same manifesto as the rest of the country.

I'd rather it was part of a different country

[jimbolala]

I'd rather it was part of a different country

as do a lot of people, i just dont think the entirety of our politics should centre around that. We need an alternative that focuses on normal politics, otherwise the sore is only festering, awaiting its next outbreak.

[pipnasty]

Very interesting this 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/09/eu-brexit-piketty-tax-google-facebook-apple-manifesto

[Romario]

Very interesting this

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/09/eu-brexit-piketty-tax-google-facebook-apple-manifesto

It is indeed. Reading stuff like this is where we should be as a collective regardless of race or origin. The current government is failing everyone daily in the uk.

Boris Johnson could be the next pm.

[pipnasty]

It is indeed. Reading stuff like this is where we should be as a collective regardless of race or origin. The current government is failing everyone daily in the uk.

Boris Johnson could be the next pm.

 

Yeah, totally.

[Tosh]

ECJ has put the ball firmly in our court regarding Article 50

[Cobs]

So Brexit can be stopped. Well, that's a bonus.

[Jarg Armani]

How on earth is that news

[muleskinner]

How on earth is that news

Because the ECJ has confirmed what was previously being denied by some quarters.

[Gilps]

Broadly agree with Bush’s take:

 

Article 50 - the provision that begins a member state's exit from the European Union - can be unilaterally revoked, the European Court of Justice has ruled. As far as British politics goes, it means that, in theory, the United Kingdom can revoke its Article 50 notification and retain its European Union membership without the loss of its opt-outs, rebate or without having to reopen the Gibraltar question.

 

As far as the wider politics of the bloc goes, the Court has defied the European Commission's fears that creating a unilateral right of revocation would allow a departing member state to trigger and revoke at will, making a mockery of the exit process. The closest to a good faith clause is that revocation must be subject to "a democratic process" - the nature of that process of course will vary from member state to member state but it means that the Court has left itself some wriggle room to declare that the revocation of Article 50 by a member state with the express intention of increasing its negotiation time is not in good faith and to strike that revocation down.

 

But all that's a question for the future, if at all. What does it mean for the United Kingdom? Constitutionally it means that Article 50 can be revoked in a number of ways: Parliament can vote to revoke it, a referendum could opt to Remain after all, and potentially the Prime Minister could just revoke if they wanted, as the British constitution gives the power to make or unmake treaties to the executive, not the legislature. (Whether the legal precedent of the Supreme Court ruling that Parliament must vote to trigger Article 50 as it affects the rights enjoyed by British citizens means that Parliament must also vote to undo that revocation is not clear, though the balance of opinion among the lawyers I spoke this morning is that Parliament would have to vote.)

 

Practically it means...not very much. Bluntly we are lightyears away from having a parliamentary majority in favour of revoking Article 50 without a referendum. That means that the route to remaining in the European Union would run through an extension of Article 50 - which is subject to the veto of other member states - and ultimately revocation if that referendum is won. British pro-Europeans are taking far too much comfort from the idea that this means that no-one could claim that remaining in the European Union means joining Schengen, the Euro or losing the rebate. There was no chance of Turkey joining the European Union, or the United Kingdom being forced to be involved in the creation of a European army either at those were still dominant features of the last referendum campaign, and you better believe that Euro membership will be a feature of the next one.

 

There's a wider point here, and they feed into two reasons why I still think the most likely outcome of a referendum re-run is a more emphatic version of the same answer. The first is that pro-Europeans don't really seem to have absorbed the lessons of the last contest, which is that you have to overcome decades of unchallenged cultural Euroscepticism and a largely hostile press. Don't forget that the biggest and most widely shared content on Facebook in the last referendum wasn't anything devised by Cambridge Analytica but the Daily Express. The second is that if even the most committed of British pro-Europeans cannot bring themselves to support the idea of Schengen, if free movement is still largely spoken of as something to be controlled with ID cards and benefit sanctions, it is not all clear how that cultural opposition to British membership of the European project can be overcome. And until those things change, pro-European victories in Britain will continue to be confined to the courts.

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Gilps

[muleskinner]

Kate or Dubya?

[Gilps]

Stephen

[John am Rhein]

what's views on if/when Theresa May loses a vote of confidence in the House of Commons? Who gets the chance to try and form a government in the following 14 days and, if that person fails, does somebody else get a chance?

[StevieC]

How on earth is that news

Firstly it affirms the Soverignty of Parliament. It also gives power to Parliament the Govt had tried to reserve for itself.

 

It also clearly states, despite the protestations of the likes of Gove, that existing Treaty terms would remain unchanged. All existing opt-outs and preferential benefits remain.

 

That’s significant as there’s no other way that’s possible.

[Hassony]

https://www.facebook.com/959780427477483/posts/1835675309887986/

 

Andy Serkis impression of Theresa May/Gollum is brilliant and disturbing at the same time

[Tosh]

The Govt fought against the case too

[StevieC]

The Govt fought against the case too

On multiple occasions. Then tried to stop their arguments being published.

[Gilps]

what's views on if/when Theresa May loses a vote of confidence in the House of Commons? Who gets the chance to try and form a government in the following 14 days and, if that person fails, does somebody else get a chance?

 

Can't see how she loses one. Needs 2/3rds majority in the Commons under the FTP Act.

[£440,000]

Wonder what this emergency conference call is gonna be about. I read it's hard for them to cancel the vote tomorrow.

 

The crazy thing about the Tories is that May is preferable to any of those positioning themselves to replace her.

[Duncan Disorderly]

Wonder what this emergency conference call is gonna be about. I read it's hard for them to cancel the vote tomorrow.

 

The crazy thing about the Tories is that May is preferable to any of those positioning themselves to replace her.

And she was on the phone to Tusk & Varadkar last night.

 

Just makes you wonder what moves she's trying to pull?

[Gilps]

Parliament being evacuated as a fire alarm's gone off.

[Jarg Armani]

Because the ECJ has confirmed what was previously being denied by some quarters.

I just thought we already knew. Carry on.